NATIONAL PARLIAMENT OF
PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE TRANSCRIPT
(Inquiry into the Civil Aviation Division, Ministry of Infrastructure
and Development)
(Uncorrected Version – subject to
changes upon revision)
Chairman: Thank you PS and your officials from the
Civil Aviation. We started off with your
Division yesterday and sort of start back this time. I think this morning there are….. committee like the corporate plan parliamentary standing
orders. This will eventually become
public documents MP for West Are Are do you have any
comments or resolutions?
Hon.
Severino: Yes,
I wish to move that the information of the Public Accounts Committee…..
Chairman: For purposes of this Committee I think the
information we have one this morning the corporate plan for the department of
immigration which in my view is still in its draft form and we have here
another one are well the response still in
response still very much on draft form not completed we have no
difficulties with this document and I think it become proper when they become
concrete then they become distributed to the departments but for purposes of
this meeting we can look at those documents whilst the public can also have
access to that I think it is much more proper if they can have them if they are
fully completed because eventually they become public documents for circulation
or do you have any other comment PS?
……In relation to the action plan ……..basically
liberate on that I was just raising the matter about the two documents tabled
this morning the corporate plan still in draft form tabled this morning really
have decided whether to remain part of…
Chairman: Any
comments from members, your views?
…..The
Auditor General ….the corporate plan being in draft form……..
Chairman: I would
have on the same view. I don’t have
difficulties with your English there except of the corporate plan which is
still very much in draft form but the public can have access once that is completed and verified by the departments and
is made available for
circulation…...
Can
I now put a question to members that the document the latest from the Auditor
General be made public, say, Aye. That document is now become public and PS can
have now access to that and officials.
Chairman: Okay, we
have now the PS again from the Ministry of Civil Aviation and we are now
looking at the special Audit Report prepared by the Audit General’s office last
year. These are just a continuation -
welcome Bill and other colleague there.
We started off yesterday with the PS.
There were 88 recommendations in the report which is a very lengthy
report according to PS the report is now before the office of the DPP and
police are now looking into the alleged fraud cases misappropriation of funds I
did have a thought of that last night and whilst the report maybe with the
office of the DPP I think there is an ownership in the department to look at
the weaknesses in the system because out of those weakness rise all these
allegations. I think that is why we will
be looking into not so much criminal aspect but looking at the system and how
that can be strengthened looking at the recommendations raised. We will leave aside those matters that
relates to those that were alleged but before focusing our change in areas
where the system how the department we can strengthen that. Can I now ask the
Permanent Secretary? Thank you very much
for producing these, somebody have a long night last night.
PS: Thank you Chair. I feel sorry for Bill and myself …was there
up to
Chairman: I’d like
to thank the PS. Honestly, I did not expect yourself and Bill to come and deal
with this lengthy page and but that shows some of you are coming to work and
thank you very much for assisting the PS but maybe that’s it in future for all
the other ……..the Committee expect PS and their officials to do likewise to
produce that in the Committee because if the Ministry of civil aviation can do
that …..already agreed we looked through at the …very draft we will be looking
at those other recommendations putting aside maybe you can just take us through
just very briefly this has and I think you have done a very marvelous job.
Bill: …….inaudible……..
PS: Thank
you I think it is a better position chairman.
The Aviation special fund as it is now has its trust account
before. The Budget Trust account that
I’ve known in existence it was never reflected into the consolidated fund as an
income and the manner in which payments were requested, authorized and expended
where highly expendable. The government has not seen the money coming in nor
seeing the money going to where and so in a very …….. the department then had
negotiated this with finance to find our way out to have its own trust account
and so it was quite a long process having to convince Finance that needs to be
in a special fund so that it would not be subject to abuse not only that the
whole vision was that Aviation infrastructure facilities were so much run down
despite the fact that government is aware the infrastructures in particular are
so critical the security of the government fund. The government have been saying they are
committed but we all fighting for the same money ……I guess and
so with these arguments put forward……..by way of recent misconduct that
there be a special fund so that all monies from the use of our upper air space
will be dealt by Aviation so as to develop aviation infrastructure . Now it is no longer a public fund the manner
in which the money is being managed is based on financial management prepared
for us by the Accountant General in Finance that fund is subject to audit but
after six months financial.......................
And
so this is where which is now…..The breakdown of the annual budget of the fund
the budget use itself how the money should be spent anything outside the
government that…..The yearly budget is prepared by the Aviation Division and
send out to finance the budget ……..so that they are aware of the actual budget,
they have full information of the budget
breakdown in the project activities so in terms of the proper use of the fund
itself for the use of the upper air space I
think I continue to say that it is now being administered properly.
Bill: That is
generally we’ve been in negotiations with the services Australia following the
audit SI/Australian National audit office be audited looking into Australian
issue relationship they’ve got with us and the services of the upper air space
in Solomon Islands on our behalf. They
take fees from the upper air space, they hold that money in the account of
Australia and then withdraw their money from as required into the account and Solomon Islands to pay the bills here now part
of the problems in Australia we’ve
discovered was that they don’t actually legal right to take money
from the account to pay for the fees and they charge us for the operation so
that it comes to us part of the lenient to be agreed with us that account that
they hold because it can’t be opened with some misunderstanding we thought that
they were going to open a separate account in their name if they want us to
open a separate account and Solomon Islands government which will then hold the
money in the same way as we do now as we
move forward as required. We’ve got a
little bit negotiations to redo that and we do have some with the best
legal for
The second thing is by keeping that money in
Australia ….what we’ve got as approximately one million Australian dollars in
that account because …….as money goes in because it is interfering effectively
gives us a thirteen month years a twelve month or so weekly 2 million dollars
and fees. We are effectively getting about A$2.2 million dollars about a year
that addressed by finance whether that continues or whether Australia has quick
money to pay it straight into our account here and then we would pay our fees
back to then but we are in negotiations with the services over there it is
through …… should be services provided by the Australian …….
Chairman: I think
there is a provision for that and I think there is now a legally open that
special account we have difficulty in that.
The expenditure part of that is revenue reflected in the budget. And I think this is now the …still the vision necessary work
out required under that account mainly infrastructure and as you said …..and I think this committee is oversight in expend in the….
Any other Members who wish to raise any
comments to this report?
Bill: That
probably takes us to number 15 I think chairman. There are several there maybe relate to DPP
successive results on that…. I think we go page by page starting on page 16.
Chairman: Ok. Just quickly, Anything that pass on to DPP will
keep that but on Administrative and procedural matters I think that is where
it is tighten mechanisms but anything the report that pass on to DPP just keep
that.
Bill: No. 19
chairman, the Attorney General involve in negotiations.
PS: This is
recommendation No. 19 and we take it very seriously chair, the previous
contract for the contract issue the agreement between SIEA the contract between
Australia and Aviation whenever it is cleared by AG’s Chambers…. therefore not
only that but the text of a contract for the maintenance of the provincial
airfields again never cleared by AG’s Chambers because only recently that the we make sure that we get the Chambers to agree to the verdicts
before our Ministry gets our recommendation to our Tender Board to make new
contract, the government …and that has been done.
Chairman: Page
23. Some of those tasks have not been
completed. Page 24, 25, 26, how did
you……..maintenance of airfields you may engage contractors.
Bill: Mr Chair in that one I’m referring back it was about 40 or
50 contractors to do various things in ….fields contractors whatsoever in all those have been terminated we take back
house ourselves because we have head in this case the appropriate staff and we
do even if remaining put that through in contractors.
PS: Yes,
chair what he was actually saying was the maintenance of the runner way is said
to commonly referred to as the air sight and the maintenance of the …….park
where we need to seeking individuals contract to get out and that occupied
through very costly for the government so we had to take a bold step to
terminate those contractors and then use our own government paid workers to
maintain the air sight of the Henderson as well as the terminal in front of the
….and which and is very so money is not wasted we use government paid workers
and we used to do that before contractors are now becoming very….. and we must be very careful.
Chairman: Is there
anything in this recommendation that talks about toilet facilities? Because
there had been a lot something on the paper as well almost daily on Solomons news papers is there anything who responsible to
maintain toilets and running waters?
Bill: Mr Chairman, we had a series of managers throughout the
years have not attended to that we have a new airport Manager in place and his
Deputy and are working on that. In the
domestic terminal we closed some of those toilets so disgusting and we have
tried to store the others to useful ongoing project to do that.
In the
international terminal we have Mr Thomas is going to
replace all the taps and water taps that are coming no, ….material and over
years these things have not been maintained properly they fail we’ve got the
project running to replace that to make sure that all of the toilets instead of
just closing them when locked
unlock or we have today ITA hardware ……….to trying all our
cleaners the proper use of proper material for cleaning …..materials
being used. We are installing available proper toilets….. lockable
we had that for years to continue supplying papers toilet papers just
disappeared is not being used so we try to correct that we are hoping manager
in place pushing these through we have useful and not discussing they are now
we are very much aware of the problem the news paper …..I feel responsible
people after that and we are certainly trying to do that.
PS: Chair, I
do hope when these things are being fixed convenience the public use a lot of
we do have problem is the public we, the public in moving of toilet papers, mirror,
soap we will continue to make repairs …I ask that we all use take
responsibility of all our facilities because we all use it that is all.
Chairman: page 28,
29, 27 you’ve already raised something there, you mentioned tender processes
and engaging forming of employees. Page 30.
PS: On page
27 Chairman on the 3rd Jan when we were still having handover from
the New Year and Christmas I sent out our….informing them that the PS/Finance
is also the Chairman of the Central Tender Board of the membership, composition
of the ministry tender board. I saw all
goods are now properly considered ….by the
Chairman: Page 30,
still on contract page
31 any other government besides
Bill: We
maintained 18 airfields. We contract
people to maintain and there are also approximately 18 private airfields what
we do provide ……. there were four or five closed supposed to close airfields
one is Ontong Java is a remote group that has never
been closed but it is used irregularly probably two to three times a year.
However because of its remoteness and its safety we feel that it has to be
maintained.
Barakoma had been closed for some 10 to 15 years has not
been used is being maintained supposed to be used. We put in place in March
last year a new policy would give us a process to go through too many airfields
we supposed to keep close. We take into account the social aspects its
remoteness this sort of thing. We will
run through that because there is no reason why we keep Barakoma
open ……….so that we have permanently closed that and we have not enough money
spent to maintain that airfield.
The other
three that were mentioned is being closed is Avu Avu, Marau and Babanakira all three of those have subsequently been
reopened and is part of the regeneration of the Weather Coast. The money is being spent on them was more
than just maintenance because we get those airfields back up to speed to be reopened
the operation and all three are now reopened and still work to be done on them
to make sure that money being spent on them is fine and that read through the
process we talk about except Ontong Java that still
needs requirements to remain open we are to maintain but Barakoma
is permanently closed.
Chairman:
Permanently closed?
Bill:
Permanently closed what we said private company what we will not no justification….
Chairman: Pages,
32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, any comments?
Bill: Page 45
– outstanding
Chairman: I think
the AG had mentioned something about the special officers that have left
government services.
PS: Yes, we
taken note of that we will deal with this case with the Ministry of
Finance.
Chairman: Pages 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51 you completed
action
PS: Chair,
page 49. I think I overlook the fact the
appointment of the revenue collector is still incomplete by the ….and is a
requirement.
Chairman: Page 53,
and 54, 55, 56, 57
PS: Chair,
we do not have from ……finance has to monies that were collected …come in at odd
times and then it is receipted so the chief accountant still holds the money
that …….have it receipted. I do not
know whether we should be equipped with one.
Chairman: What
kinds of receipts are these?
PS: These
are ………
Tuita:
Security, meaning the strong safe, still lock
or unlock, supposed to have a heavy lock.
The MOF has got it for us. We are just using safes.
Chairman: The
Departure Tax? How do they do it in
other countries?
Bill: Chair,
most of the countries is restricted by the allowances in ticketing and then
come back to the government this currently used to be the procedure here but
the breakdown of relationships between the Solomon airlines and I guess did not
pay us back there is a …we are actually going back to that system make it much
easier for us deal have held to deal with people in the tax would do it we
throw that to the airline to sort out or we have some procedure for everybody
pays.
PS: Mr Chairman I think it is a matter that needs to be
thoroughly be given careful thought because when it comes to reflecting it as
an income maintaining the current monies collected by government straight into
be receipted it makes it easier for the accounts in the ministry to be able to
know how much money was earned the previous year to be able to make an estimate
for the following financial year so in a way we might seriously consider
looking at the advantages of government collecting all revenues other than …or using
another part to do it. I do understand
what you are talking about. That was
tried it did not work out.
Bill: We do
have a very high proportion of exit to people traveling especially with the
RAMSI personnel. So let’s see how we
address that.
PS:
Chairman, we also have a problem where everyone who carries a red
diplomatic passport is exempted may not be possible the Aviation ….the aviation
act does not say it. It just says what
categories of people are exempted but
when you have the protocol people from
Foreign Affairs coming to say, this
person be exempted because he carries a red passport that is violating the
Aviation Rule so it is the matter because we are worried the more people
exempted is a loss of revenue. So it is
an administrative matter of all.
Chairman: If the
laws have not changed I think we should go by what the Act says specify who is
exempted and who is not exempted regardless red, blue, or pink passport that is
besides the point.
So the departure tax is currently collected for income and no receipts are
produced.
Bill: We get
as you get stick of it on your ticket. That is also a sequential number as well
so that we can then check out against the revenue that comes in. It is quite a ……and is a separate from the
ticketing area has to pay before people depart so lets say, is a system that
becomes cumbersome if done properly gives a very good detail who pays and who
did not pay and how much money is collected.
….: if someone know the
problem before some of the several weeks before go further security indicate
some action
Tuita: Chair, I
want all the collections for each day to be deposited after each day yesterday
late flight be deposited to be made daily.
Chairman: Good.
Ok. Page 51, 52, or
54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60. 58 if
AG can also finance …sometimes it is very inconvenient well it is convenient
for central system go down MOF to pay and sometimes it is quite convenient if
you want to pay in Lands depart you have to go to MOF. Area needs to pay as well. Page 61,62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67,68, 69,70.
Hon. Severino: Mr Chairman, I think the project action plan has to told us what they are doing and what they are supposed to be
doing and this is not a token. The only
thing that is left for us is to see whether they continue with the
implementation of those action plans because this is what they have been
doing. It is just to follow that it is
implemented is the only thing left as far as I’m concerned.
Chairman: Thanks
Member for raising that point is taken but if you look at the front page it’s
got the heading of those columns. May be they are not but I think they are
going their responses a lot of the recommendations have been taken care of if
you look at page 61, page 68 see under the action column they said it is under
action that means the department is and some drafts have been completed and the
others are still under review but at least as we’ve said colleague member this
is only a draft of their proposed respond the depart has definitely taken some
actions on the report and the recommendations.
Thanks for raising that. Pages 69, 70, 71.
Auditor General: Page
71, Chair. The law commons in the…
Bill: another…… what be done… in
Chair: Page
77. Just on Page 77 the training of pilots,
that is Solomon Airlines issue?
PS: Yes Chair, you mean training of pilots.
Chairman: Yes,
training? Which training? Officers?
PS: What
happens in the past was that few aviation officers undertake training I find it
out with the illegal …..without the approval even of the
Now
for the specialized training there is a…. is being provided for in the Act the
amendment to the …….that specialized trainings are not offered in the country
but are offered outside the market sin which requires aviation… those can be
met….
Hon. S. Riumana: For
these specialized trainings do you have a committee to select people qualified
for the training?
PS: Chair, Aviation has its staff training, each
section maybe an air traffic handles their staff in which they have identified
personnel they identified personnel on which particular program which really
directly relevant to their work.
Hon. S. Riumana: Again
on the specialized training on page 77.
It can be funded through these special aviation
how do they access if you are entitled to that specialized training how do you
access?
PS: The
manner in which mine can be cater for
the short term, ten processes receiving payments from the same way of these
over the next page 84 or 85.
Bill: Page 84,
85
Chairman: The airfields on Isabel, the status.
PS: Chair we
have established an understanding with our civil engineers if they keep to
their promise this year they would also to the assessment of all the aerodromes
that are being maintained by government.
In the case of if we are talking about Fera. Fera
need to be assessed by engineers. We
have funds to build the terminal at Fera but the rate
of sand erosion is very fast, the Provinces has to look for an alternative site
as quickly as possible away from Fera, apart from Fera then Fera can be closed.
If the run way at Fera
has to be maintained or upgraded it will cost the government in millions
engineering work that is so we have I think the last time the committee visited
your ministry we raised these concerns to Aviation and is supposed to be the
safety of the traveling public too because two ends, the airfield is getting
shorter. There has been alternative
running airstrip and government can maintain.
Hon. Riumana: Yes,
listening to another question Mr chairman there has been ..one is Zazao which was
built by the people themselves and a national project which was funded by government is Konide,
which is half complete due to the ethnic tension. Do you have plans to complete the Konide airport and to improve Zazao
airstrip?
PS: Come
again honourable. Zazao
was funded by…?
Hon. Riumana: Zazao was funded by
the Logging Company.
PS:
Community driven and Konide?
Hon. Riumana: Konide was funded by SIAC government. It was not completed
as the result of the ethnic tension.
PS: It would
appear Chair that Zazao was a private initiative and
community it is but perhaps it just ended there and that’s it. In the case of Konide,
I feel go through the development in relation to Konide
and establish that. After SIAC the
present government did not see Konide as a
priority.
As far as Aviation is concerned we confine our
activities and projects within the confines of the government of the day’s
policies but we’ve given the situations of the in the case of Fera the province must identify an
airstrip as an alternative and can be maintained by the government.
Hon.
Riumana: Mr Chairman, with the coming nickel operation in Ysabel Konide airfield will be
very important. Fera is just too far away from the site of this
nickel operation. Konide
is the most ideal airport for this nickel operation. And these are the projects for economy,
projects for the government. I see no reason why Konide
cannot be completed if we are interested about economy development of this
nation then Konide is the priority.
Chairman: Yes, the
Chair will rule here that this is quite outside the audit report but because it
is a national interest I suggest the Member can take this matter up with your
office and the province is quite a concern there but it is a good one but as a
matter of interest raise it with your officials and also the province as you’ve
suggested for maybe for the next six months you will have an airport besides Fera.
Hon. Severino: Mr Chairman, in relation to …activities about….airport is
closed and accidents is happening in the southern region so …relevant to our
people.
Bill: Mr Chair, ……….two years ago was in process of being reopen
was become subject to land dispute and this was sorted out so Aviation is due
to the ……
Chairman: As I’ve
said I;ve progress similar
ruling here the honourable raised as a
matter of interest we have to raise it in your office. Can we move on to the last page….will some
other issues maybe outside the report but on the commendations the last there,
pages 86, 87 and 88 excluding 87.
Hon. Riumana: Mr Chairman, p. 86 this engage,
what was the real problems with these contractors?
Bill: At one
stage beginning of last year ……..contracts would make its own two for the main
run way and one was still enforce from previous terms was given three years and
two years term and another contract would lead to that and same time so we had
two main contracts. The ends the approaches both institute to land acquisition,
which was being approved by lands which was never been carried through. Somewhere we’ve got the position here where
aviation was got to be trained for three monthly basis
for the maintenance of those each end.
Again say
before my time those were increased up to being paid monthly a greater rate to
receive at the end of each month for $2,000 a month for each end and I think
the main contract …for the run way and the reasons they were being paid because
lands did not finish with the acquisition for that land.
Last year very long and …….process for the
passed we cancel those two contracts for the last back to lands finish of the
acquisition and they be paid through those landowners and the regional contract
was settled so that within that we’ve got only one contract that has now gone
through just finish off the process through the ministerial tender board of
selecting and making recommendations …..for a new
contract …..as it was being reviewed. It was something
we do not know how it occurred in the first place but certainly it highlights
in …not….just being passed the DPP.
Chairman: Any
further comments?
Hon. Koli: Yes,
just a general comment. During Sogavare’s reign in the year 2001 I support I was one of
his Ministers within the Civil Aviation Ministry of Culture, Tourism and
Aviation and I did not know about this fund until some of the officers were got
to be sent out. And then I knew there is
a fund collected from the Australian Air Services.
Anyway, what I would like to comment is I’m so
thankful for rectifying that situation and we are working in the guidelines that are
accountable to that fund.
Another one I would like to thank aviation for
reopening some of the airstrips some on this island and some are on the other
provinces and those are my comments. I would like to appreciate your department
for reopening some of these airstrips.
Chairman: Any
further comments on the response by the Dept members or any comments from the
Auditor’s Office?
Auditor-General: Thanks
Chairman. Just a few
remarks. I’m mindful the fact
that these reports are very costly in terms of time and materials and the
issues highlighted reflects failures within the system and compliance for
regulations and further instructions.
Now it could be meaningless from my colleague
members in my departments seems detrimental and therefore we don’t have any
other but in this case Chair I’m very pleased indeed that despite of the
country’s ….it is … They have indeed done tremendous work in implementing most
of the recommendations made in it and I see this as a way forward.
In fact
on the bases that the country’s ….are televised it would good in my view that
as soon as the department completes or finalizes the action plan I think it
would be good to have the real access to the action plan so that people are
aware that Ministries are seemed to be implementing the reports that are on….
.
I guess
Chairman: Just
before I come through to ….any comments from the members?
Hon. Riumana: Yes,
question on recommendation 88. On the
action taken these are accounts ….Are you satisfied with the performances? Now it is 2007.
PS: Yes,
Chair, Avis had an account before some of the ……..quick access to again a sign
of financial strains. Now there is a
huge ….aviation ………a function of so I hope the PS 2005 the matter was brought
to ………. yes
suspend the account a memo was sent to Finance to put that amount to be dealt
with under…because it is not only the responsibility for the ministry…..we had
no response ….the only verbal advice I’ve got from the accountants of Solomon
Airlines …………so that can be off set. But
that is where it is and I do think the Ministry will do the debt servicing.
Chairman: I think
I will concur with what he says. This debt servicing should be dealt by the
Ministry of Finance that part should be a function of the MOF. Any other comments?
Hon. Severino: Thank
you Mr Chair.
I would just like to thank Civil Aviation for …….to which it was trapped
it was trapped but the fact they tried to put us in the scene to help tackle
the problem. What I would want to say
here is that…..if there is some … other reports we should to make it easy for
us to know where it was going and let them outside of this meeting room to
follow up in this case we can see what is happening say, yes, this is your
action plan, but to produce that action plan later on that might not be
possible or might not be made possible I’m not sure.
Chairman: Thanks
for raising that point. I did want to make the comment on that I think it will
have to be conditionality by the committee that Secretariat and the Audit
General’s office whatever other report comes before this committee we would
require of you those departments to produce a response and then maybe the
corporate plans covered to have something first to concentrate on. Any other further comments from members or
you exhausted yourself? Can I have some
final comments from the officials?
PS: Yes, I
start with a conclusive remark here. I think we have the dedication of this
team in the Audit Depart. given the situation that I’m
not……..that is where it is not yet corporative.
They were able to come up with something that the Department then wanted
all along I think ….. It is something
that the public is aware. He talks and
information passes the way it wants so I’m really grateful to the Auditor
General and his team sponsored by him to do this very project. I’m thankful to
Richard and your predecessor and his good team for furnishing this government
and for the public.
Chairman: Well,
unless anybody else further comments are you happy? Well we it has been a very long time maybe
since